|
Post by Caralinus on Feb 9, 2007 2:19:11 GMT
It's not really that big (see above posts) and Necromunda has more than Just Hive Primus. GW only got as far as Hive Secundus which was basically a rip off of the Hindsk Hive but like I said it'd take far too long for them to make up names even if they bothered to work out just how many people one hive can support, so they just concentrated on the one for the game which seems reasonable and practical. We don't have such limitations which is why I invested some time in a bit of maths to work out just how many people you could fit into a hive the size of Hive Primus.
As far as I am aware the population of Hive Primus and Necromunda have never been stated but in the 3rd edition rulebook it gives an estimate of a hive world population of between 100 and 500 billion. That many people could not fit into one hive and I don't care what anyone says.
Plus The Spire isn't ten miles high, it's less than five high and two across and a quarter or so of that is reserved solely for House Helmawr. The whole of Hive Primus, right down to the Sump is about 12-13 miles, it stands 10 miles above the surface and is about 8 or 9 miles across at the very bottom but that amount of width only carries on to the top of the Underhive and then it narrows sharply.
That means that my calculations allow for far more people to live in a hive than the Hive Primus cut through would, which is why I reckon that the actual population of one hive is less than 30 million (the most, I will reiterate, being 100 million if Hives were packed as tight as a modern high rise flat which they aren't) which is still absolutely collosal. So, 500 billion divided by 30 million is 16,666.6 recurring (3333.3 recurring for 100 billion).
Even if you said you could fit a billion people in each one that's still 500 Hives.
|
|
|
Post by necris on Feb 9, 2007 7:54:58 GMT
I was refreing to the type of Hive not the section of it, Necromunda's Hive Primus is a Spire Hive in that it gose up like a spire,
Other hive types mentioned by Gw are, Disk Hive (vast expance of metropolian life) Inverted Spire (as was the case with Medusa V) Dome Spire (either one big dome or lots of little ones)
|
|
|
Post by Caralinus on Feb 9, 2007 14:45:43 GMT
Either way, I stand by my calculations Ten miles up is a staggering height for us but, the maths aren't awed by that and so I must refuse to believe that billions of people live in one hive. I don't suppose to state any of this as canonical fact but like I've pointed out far too many times already I've worked it out and so my conclusion is based on that. People may take it or leave it as they choose but to my mind you either need to makes hives a lot bigger (far wider I'd say) to fit people in, or you just have to have less people which doesn't seem quite right some how.
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Feb 9, 2007 15:09:09 GMT
So we have bigger hives....anyone got a problem with that?
|
|
vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
|
Post by vendile on Feb 9, 2007 16:36:18 GMT
cara, don't get hung up on this stuff, we just need to give rough estimates of hte average hive population, afterall, its not like we need to know exactly how many people live there.
|
|
|
Post by Caralinus on Feb 9, 2007 18:13:17 GMT
No, that's true and it was only my intention to provide some numbers using the available sources. The more information we have the better our creations will be in the end. The only reason why I had an interest in working the numbers out as accurately was for work I did for my own world quite some time ago. I think at the time I underestimated the population of a hive but even so it works out more-or-less the same.
Maybe I have been overly thorough so I'll leave that where it is.
As to how big a hiveberg is to be then I would not make them bigger than a 'spire' type hive.
I wonder just how much one of these hivebergs would weigh. The Knock Nevis weighs about 650,000 tonnes when full and sits 25 meters in the water. I'm not sure how high it is but I reckon about 40 meters. Hmm, pointless question really I guess but I reckon a very rough estimate for a hiveberg would be 500,000,000 tonnes. Pointless and irrelevant question though I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by thenephew on Feb 9, 2007 22:17:40 GMT
Though I would prefer as accurate as possible an estimate, and Caralinus has done admirably in that respect, it looks like the poulation will have to sit at about the tens of millions. The simple refusal of GW to use sensible numbers means this will probably be the best we can do. The question of weight is indeed, as Caralinus pointed out, so far beyond reckoning that we had best step back and admit defeat, before we end up trying to float several billion tons of rock. I'm afraid, simply from personal preference, I'd like to see Hives of less than 1 million people, but that point will have to die for the greater good of the planet. As an approximate comprimise between reason and GW, 30 million seems a good, fairly justified number to use.
|
|
vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
|
Post by vendile on Feb 9, 2007 23:17:55 GMT
30million on one berg is too much IMO. I would say more like 5million on the biggest and oldest bergs, and around 4,000 on the absolute smallest (population of a small town these days)
|
|
|
Post by Caralinus on Feb 9, 2007 23:44:57 GMT
I think that would be entirely logical and we could say that each hiveberg has a population in the millions (rather than the tens of millions). I still believe that it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a few hundred or more hivebergs. Even the biggest will look like very small drifting islands and in an entire ocean I think we could easily have a fair few of them. Although I concede that popular opinion doesn't agree with me 100% on that issue.
|
|
vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
|
Post by vendile on Feb 10, 2007 0:19:29 GMT
I'd say we break it something roughly like this: 10-15 Big Bergs - the real "Hive" equivelents, includes the oldest bergs. 20-30 bergs more on the size of a small city 40-ish bergs the size of a reasonable town 25-ish bergs with the lowest population levels(i.e. 4,000-8,000 population) - these are obviously slightly fewer than some of the larger ones because of the difficulty in getting established and maintaining harvesting/supply contracts etc.
|
|
|
Post by thenephew on Feb 10, 2007 20:48:44 GMT
That works, Vendille. Apologies for my last post, it seems that the landhive numbers were sitting a little too centrally while I was writing that. The point about supply contracts could quite easily open up a whole new threads-worth of debate. And I think it probably should, unless it has been covered in a post on another thread, that I haven't seen yet.
|
|
|
Post by thenephew on Feb 13, 2007 23:33:30 GMT
Do we need or want another thread on the trading habits of the bergs? If we have agreed on trade guilds, which I think we did, then do we need tog o into the structure of them, and into the history of the more important, oldest of them? I'm willing to write up a couple if they are desired, but we'll need more than one guild on the seas.
Edit: my writing schedule varies as assignments come in, but a brief history of one or two guilds should present itself reasonably soon.
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Feb 13, 2007 23:40:47 GMT
How do you mean? I imagine that would all vary between hives, though there might be some general similarities, I suppose...or have I misread you?
At some point yes (and I'm pretty certain it's a final concept - as far as I know, it was pretty much confirmed in the planetary govt thread)...as for the history, again yes, but perhaps at a later stage, though if anyone did do something now, I'd be very happy to see it...
|
|
|
Post by thenephew on Feb 13, 2007 23:51:33 GMT
I meant how such trading would take place. Through agents [separate corporate identities] on land? Land based representatives of the Berg's interests? Sale from Berg to sea-trader, who sells it on at port with a slim profit margin? Or sale to one main trading body, with regulated prices per volume per purity grade, who then sells it on off world? Any preferences?
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Feb 13, 2007 23:54:32 GMT
Again, I suspect it vaires - you're right, this needs it's own thread
|
|