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Post by Doug on Mar 6, 2007 22:13:36 GMT
Right, this thread's quite simple...what does the planet have, in the way of a military?
More specifically, what's its PDF like? Is it big? Is it small? How does it recruit (conscription, volunteers, lots of propaganda, etc)? What duties does it perform normally (ie. in peacetime)? How is it organised? That sort of thing...
Again, I have some ideas of my own, but I'll let some other people speak first, mainly because I'm a little busy at the moment...
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 6, 2007 23:43:47 GMT
One idea in my mind -
Out of every hundred PDF they will be split about 70/25/5 between ocean-going-navy/cove-based land soldiers/jungle troops.
The Navy: With the planets main income coming from the oceans, they are the most important thing to protect, as such the planet has a huge ocean-going naval fleet to constantly patrol the oceans for raiders, pirates, penal escapeies and other rouge or unauthorised characters. Think along the lines of the Brittish Marines - but most of their work involves boarding other vessels rather than sea-based land assualts. Commonly called the "white caps" because of their bright clean combat helmets - due to the fact that navy personal are always at greater risk to heat exhaustion from the solar flares, the helmets are specially designed to ensure the soldiers head stays cool.
The Land Troops: These guys work just like any old PDF force from any number of planets, following structures similar to the imperial guard. The land troops, known as the "red caps" due to their distinctivly coloured helmets, also act as the local policing force in a similar way to the way Enforcers would usually be the local support for Arbites.
Jungle Troops: Though sometimes viewed as a small reclusive sect of the PDF whose recruits mostly origionate from small isolated imperial costal settlements around the continent shore - if any invasion were ever to take place, their inate knowledge of the jungle, taught to them by pro-imperial tribesmen over two years of basic training, would be invaluable at dealing with emeny elements in the near-endless jungle. Whilst they are nicknamed the "green caps" because of their camoflauge-pattern helmets, the head gear is hardly ever worn as most soldiers believe it restricts both the visual arc and your hearing range. Both essential if you wish to survive long enough to know how to avoid being attacked by that damn preaditor in the first place...
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Post by Devotee Silus on Mar 7, 2007 20:23:33 GMT
Nice ideas there. I definitely agree about the Navy being the dominant PDF force but I think that due to the massive areas needed to be covered the Navy would largly consist of battle groups protecting a large Aircraft carrier capable of sending out very long distance air patrols. I think boarding actions would be out of the question in a major conflict because ship to ship action, if any, would take place at very long distances. Day to day policing would require boarding actions I am sure, but naval combat at this time would be entirely missile and air based.
Also due to the dangers of being round the chemical "Water" for too long I think that ships should be sealed eg. with airlocks and air filters.
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 7, 2007 21:53:21 GMT
well, we still have no finalised concept of what the resource will actually be used for, or whether the water is warmful at all - I would go with the ocean being very neutral, just like water, as such a set-up is easier to play around with.
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Post by kessedor on Mar 7, 2007 21:57:39 GMT
Would their air force (if any) be apart of the naval fleets, i.e. Aircraft carriers and such?
By the way, my first post here!
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Post by Doug on Mar 7, 2007 22:03:23 GMT
well, we still have no finalised concept of what the resource will actually be used for, or whether the water is warmful at all - I would go with the ocean being very neutral, just like water, as such a set-up is easier to play around with. Well...actually...we have basically finalised what the resource is...in that thread, if my scanning of the last few posts was correct, we basically concluded that a mix of chemicals from the oceans, when combined the right way, would end up making a fuel...
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 8, 2007 1:54:20 GMT
well, yes, but you can stick a bucketfull of salt in fresh water and its still neutral, it just tastes salty.
if you get my meaning.
But back on topic: i think they would have a modestly size air force based at the Cove spaceport and quite probably also have aircraft carrier like ships - though aside from that I could see it as being common practise for larger ships to have between one and five Vultures and/or Valkiries, seeing as how they as basically the guards answer to helicopters.
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Post by Devotee Silus on Mar 8, 2007 10:46:14 GMT
By the way is this planet in a permanent state of martial law because i would think that the PDF would be too thinly spread if they were used as a local police force. Also I'm not sure about the red helmets.
I think sealed ships would be a good idea any way because of the flare stuff. That would reduce the need for the "Look I'm over here! Shoot me!" type uniform.
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Post by thenephew on Mar 8, 2007 17:47:51 GMT
I'd agree with Silus - a distinctive uniform is necessary, but an easily visible one is a bad idea. Having a uniform that had large and obvious, but not brightly coloured, insignia would be a better idea. Vendile - the water may indeed not be lethal acid, but chances are it would be highly carcinogenic, and prolonged exposure to ocean spray containing metroline is likely to give a case of skin cancer that leaves you looking like a Pink Horror. I'd move for sealed ships for that reason mainly, as the flares could be deflected with mirrored panels on the roof. Or solar panels, allowing the energy to be stored in auxiliary capacitors.
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Post by Doug on Mar 8, 2007 18:13:33 GMT
By the way is this planet in a permanent state of martial law because i would think that the PDF would be too thinly spread if they were used as a local police force. . No, it's in no more of a state of martial law than any other peacetime planet in the Imperium...the way I see it (I don't know if onthers do) the PDF police matters outside of the hives (which will have their own enforcers etc) - so on the oceans and the continent (including, I suspect, the capital)...
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Post by Devotee Silus on Mar 8, 2007 23:01:25 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up Doug. So shall we say PDF only enter the hives in states of crisis then.
Nice idea about the solar panels. They could also serve as electromagnetic dampers to make the ships more difficult to pick up on unsophisticated sensory equipment. That would make it less easy for pirates to run rings around the Navy.
I think the "War bergs" are a good idea as well (I know they have been talked about in other threads) and I think that instead of being mobile like the other Bergs they should be anchored. This would prevent distances between way-points becoming to great for the Navy patrols to deal with.
PS: BTW i have a kind of PDF diagram worked out that sorts all the groups out. I will post it tomorrow to see what you think.
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mohauk
Artisan
Bringer of Fish
Posts: 75
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Post by mohauk on Mar 9, 2007 21:39:44 GMT
All sounds pretty perfect to me - that was just how I'd envisioned it all. As to the ocean fluid, I'd say the same as Doug - have enough contact for the pores to absorb this stuff, or ingest any accidentally, and it is about as carcinogenic as modern day hydrocarbon-fractions like tar or oil. Basically, not 'aaaarrrrggghh the acid its eating my skin', but definitely 'no swimming here'.
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Post by thenephew on Mar 11, 2007 13:01:16 GMT
The thing is, it seems more likely that anything that needs more than the Hive's privateeers can provide would have the bits pwned off it by an overflying PDF bomber - pirate problems are hardly going to be treated with kid gloves and sensitivity. It would make more sense to me to have a centralised PDF response team to deal with full scale pirate invasions on a Hive, workers revolt on the same, or any other military threat that the Hive's can't deal with. The Land based troops seem to be glorified police, which doesn't sit particularly well with my idea of the PDF, but I'm willing to go with it for now. The Jungle troops, however, seem a bit pointless. Either they spend their whole time sitting around under a bush, or they are given another specific role - the planet simply isn't invaded enough to justify a separate section. If they were platoons of tribal volunteers, voluntarily barracked in the forest's edge, then that would be more acceptable. If they were continually used as wandering trackers, to give the senate/military/anyone with bribe money an idea of the locations of various tribes/adamantodon herds/other, then they would actualy serve a purpose.
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 11, 2007 13:25:44 GMT
PDF organisations varie drastically between planets. For instance the Cadian PDF are trained to the same levels as the true regiments; on Pavonis (the planet in Nightbringer by Graham McNeil) the PDF are split by into different forces by which noble family owns and supplies the individual companies of men; whereas world such as Lorna (GHEP on the 'clave) are so sparesly populated that they have a normal guard regiment posted to the planet to act as PDF for their alloted rest period.
The varieties are extreme, as with everythin in the Imperium of Man.
Most PDF are pointless as they never see any action apart from the occassional riot where they don't even use leathal weapons. The point however is that over the years the governors have wanted to try and be able to have a force trained specifically for the planets jungles - one that they knew they could rely on being loyal and true to the imperium, unlike the tribesmen who could simply disappear into the depths of the jungle if they fealt like it.
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Post by necris on Mar 13, 2007 11:29:43 GMT
Actually the PDF are the PDF they are the professional Planetary Defence Force soldiers that are maintained by the planet when their regiments go off to war as part of their levy
Private forces (such as the Quinn estate in GHEP) are a wholly separate thing and come under no influence from the millitary command structure.
So it's quite possible to have
PDF Private armed forces in the employ of the wealthy Independent Armed units (ie merc)
Everyone seems to forget that while PDF are not as "experienced" as front line Imperial Guard they are still a professional solider on most worlds. They are after all the first line of defence against any invasion.
I'd propose that like today in the case of riots and civil unrest the PDF are a last resort
That should be left to the mandate of the local enforcers and at a push the planetary arbiters
the PDF could also be broken down even further to having something akin to the American Coast guard operating at all times on the oceans while the main PDF Naval force is either docked or on open sea patrol.
I'd propose the military displacement should consist of
Ocean Defence Force (ODF) being the greater part of the PDF force but within that it being split again into a 50/40/10 division into Patrol fleet/War fleet/Air force
Hive Defence Force (HDF) Being the standard PDF with a division of 70/30 split into City Defence/Air force
Jungle Expedition Force (JEF) Which are really just an offshoot branch of the continental HDF and are a specialist Jungle force as mentioned above.
Uniform wise I think there should be distinct differences between the main forces so there should be a uniform for
Patrol Navy - I think the navy should have blues and greys as their uniforms for the Patrol Fleet I'd say a Light Grey Uniform incorporating the white cap for dress (hence the name) and them being referred to as White Caps War Navy - Going on the above statement the war Navy should be either all blue or all white, I'm of a nation that whites a bitch to keep clean and so should only really be dress uniform for officers, so blue it is, now you can have the "Blue Boys", "Blue Coats," etc Air force - I'd like to say black for the air force just because I like black and it'll make em stand out as that specialist fly guy and their name could be "Black Coats", "Fly Guys" Hive Defence - I'd say in keeping with the Patrol force a dark Grey with the possibility of red helmets hence "red caps" Jungle Teams - Of course this will be a green colour, camo or what ever
I also think there should be and enforcer role within each Hive that being that everyday police matters weather subordinate to the PDF or not there should be an enforcer presence as for colour I'd like to stay away from the traditional Navy of British police I'd say another colour is in need perhaps red to tie in with the city defence force but to make them stand out as clearly the police force
And again I think the Arbiters being in their traditional black and yellow will work nicely,
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