vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 22, 2007 21:23:31 GMT
theres numerous posts on this matter so i will post in all of them! One fantastic reason to NOT have sealed ships is because the likes of the pirate ships will be very much knocked together, with guns bolted onto the deck and suchlike.
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Post by thenephew on Mar 22, 2007 23:58:27 GMT
The argument against sealed ships is still not nearly watertight (Score! Cheap gag!) - If they can make a boat float, they can make it's crew cabins proof against sea spray, which is all they really need. These are not "Man the riggings, splice the mainsails" pirates, they will spend most of the time travelling under engine power from target to base, or target to target. The only person who will be regularly exposed to the elements will be the captain or navigator, even then only if the bridge is incredibly poorly constructed. The amount of time spent on deck will be negligible compared to that necessary to bring on a serious case of the Rasp. As such, it would be a mark of age and seniority to have progressed symptoms of the Rasp. The idea of pirates running ships that are not watertight is ridiculous - the upkeep required would remove each individual boat from the band very quickly. Aside from which, there is no good reason that those with access to proper resources wouldn't use them to proof themselves against the Rasp - it will be a known and serious killer, not something that will be laughed off, least of all by someone mature enough to have earned themselves a boat. The PDF, for example, are famed for have low instances of the Rasp among their ranks, relative to the time spent at sea. This is because of the stringent checks and extensive maintainance that is put into making and keeping the boats safe to operate.
Of the 'numerous' [2] threads you have posted that in, this is the only relevant one. Since it is one of the things that really bug me, please don't spam post, even in really low numbers like this.
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 23, 2007 16:02:16 GMT
I ain't no spammer, but anyway;
You've misunderstood what i meant, i was in no way implying that they were "man the riggings" pirates, as you put it, thinking on it though, you are corret in that most of the time all the crew will be safely indoors rather than out on the decks, but still.
Perhaps we could say its common practise for pirates to strap on rebreathers (often not very effective cheap ones though, thus still allowing the Rasp), whenever they go out on deck or partake in boarding actions.
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Post by thenephew on Mar 23, 2007 16:17:49 GMT
I kinda snapped at that there - sorry, bad day. The rebreathers I like, especially since they are likely to be recycled/reused beyond their sell-by-date in the case of pirates. Of course, they can be remodelled into big f**k off scary masks as well - cool. This an excellent reason to have supply raids on very specific convoys or warehouse sectors, as shipments of Detox and rebreathers are stolen by masked berserkers. Allows for all sorts of other little quirks as well - the captain taking the best masks, using one until it isn't good enough for him, and passing it on to his second in command. The cabin boy eventually gets a mask, so shot to bits that it is barely better than a rag across the face. This way, captains would use rebreathers as status symbols, with lower ranks denoted by the quality of their masks. This would still allow the Rasp to be a sign of great experience, without condemning all pirates to a short and phlegmy life. For the 'bolted on' bits, it would be a good touch on attack speedboats or something similar. The pirates come in strafing the target ship, before pulling alongside, unclipping their deck-mounted heavy stubbers, boarding and stomping some merchant face.
Well, that was a littel more constructive than my last post...
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mohauk
Artisan
Bringer of Fish
Posts: 75
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Post by mohauk on Mar 24, 2007 9:13:56 GMT
As to where to refuel, the pirates could have small (relatively) floating harbours, perhaps the size of a hamlet or small village, where they store fuel and food and can stay between raids. Obviously occasioanlly these stopping places would need refueling themselves, but you're cutting the necessity down a thousand-fold - these things will basically be big floating walled dormitories on top of oil tanks and ammunition stores, all built from bits of scrap iron and other materials bolted togather. If anyone has seen the film waterworld, think the guys with the obsession with oil. Take away the madness, and they strike me as being exactly the sort of pirates we're imagining. I see these pirate-floats as being a little like the floating village the protagonist visits - places for pirates to rest, regroup, refuel, and generally engage in criminal activity.
If you haven't seen waterworld, I'd advise renting it. It's a little old, but pretty good, and it is stuffed with ideas which would work really well with the idea of an oceanic planet, where the ocean is fuel and the cities float.
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 24, 2007 18:14:26 GMT
you know, I think I've seen the first ten minutes of Waterworld about four times, never seen the whole film though.
However the idea of a floating pirate base seems a bit suspect on a world like this one. I would prefer the idea that the settlements on the smaller scattered islands and in the more secluded areas of the continents coast are perfectly ready to trade with the pirates, getting much needed extras which would just be far too expensive to purchase through the official lines.
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Post by thenephew on Mar 24, 2007 18:58:36 GMT
I think we're thinking of the same thing when I say good idea. It certainly seems like a good way to work it, but they would be so easily picked off by PDF bombers, or a small obital lancing.
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Post by Doug on Mar 24, 2007 20:04:15 GMT
Not necessarily - I'm sure there are ways of avoiding it, if only by avoiding detection. The oceans are bound to be pretty vast, and if something's done up to blend in from above - again, I imagine it's possible, even if it is a lick of paint in a couple of places - it shouldn't be too hard to stop yourself being seen. That, and of course there might be more complex technology -radar blocking, etc... I suppose nice hidden cave systems and coves on the continent might do the trick. But you're right, it would definitely be a risk for the pirates. But who ever said that pirating was easy?
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vendile
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Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 24, 2007 21:33:50 GMT
rogue rocks perhaps?
rock-bergs too small for Administratum/AdMech to be bothered with, but secretly established on as pirate trading posts, small enough to be more manvuerable than their hive-sized counterparts.
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Post by Doug on Mar 24, 2007 22:12:19 GMT
Hrm...I'm a bit iffy about that. They'd probably be quite easy to spot - and I imagine the authorities, while not using them for cities, mght at least keep a record of everyone spotted. That said, it has some potential as an idea, if developed appropriately...
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Mar 24, 2007 22:31:26 GMT
like you yourself have said before, an entire world of ocean(almost) is alot of space to keep track of, and there are bound to be hundreds of small rocks floating around, completly ignored, some still existing from long before imperials even landed on the planet. rocks uncatalouged and uncared for.
and as long as a "pirate base" was built fully within the rock, with perhaps, as you suggest, hidden internal berths for ships, it would be perfectly inconspicuious.
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Post by stormturmoil on Mar 24, 2007 22:39:42 GMT
also, any island with any kind of copperleaf coverage would be completely unscannable, making for at least quick bolt holes, even if a hollowed rock is a better permanent base ( island hopping could be the way to get started until the group has the gumption to get themselves a rock)
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Post by thenephew on Mar 24, 2007 23:14:57 GMT
The thing is, it would be pretty easy to track a raiding party to their base, using orbiting satellite/ship surveillance. Aside from which, even IRL the powers that be keep tabs on even fairly small icebergs, which are only a temporary hazard. I would expect most floating rocks to be watched and/or tracked, probably destroyed at the first convenient chance. Smaller islands would work well as bases, yes, but actually using them on a regular basis would be incredibly difficult. I like the idea, it just doesn't fit in with my idea of how the planet would work.
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Post by Doug on Mar 25, 2007 8:08:19 GMT
I'm pretty much with the Nephew on this - I would say more but I'd probably just be reiterating his points
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mohauk
Artisan
Bringer of Fish
Posts: 75
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Post by mohauk on Mar 25, 2007 20:27:00 GMT
The point is, if it is so easy to track the raiding party to a base, whether floating man-made, incorporated into a rock or into an island, then the whole pirate idea is void anyway. The Imperium don't have the sort of scanning technologies we have, remember. There has to be some way the Pirates can cloak themselves, or they would be tracked by orbital scanning and hunted down. If a floating base can be killed, so can a small flotilla of vessels.
Rooves of lead would shield from scans, and camouflage from visuals.
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