vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Feb 16, 2007 19:06:17 GMT
Ork spores create too much of an on-going problem, i would move to drop them.
I really don't understand why people are so against the use of chaos though, as apart from the teeming numbers of different aliens fighting the imperiums power, chaos is its most deadly enemy, because it is basic the "anti-imperium".
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Post by thenephew on Feb 17, 2007 0:30:48 GMT
Because that's exactly what every other designer of Imperial planets thinks - Chaos would be a perfect enemy/past occupier of this system. And that system. And that system. A simple 'Apathetic agnostic' movement (supporting, or indeed acknowledging, neither Chaos nor Emperor) would serve as enough of an enemy. As soon as the planet decides it shouldn't be sending so much of it's wealth to this 'god' emperor, the Imperium overreacts, beats down the rebellious sectors, and progressively radicalises the rest of the population. Eventually this leads to full blown revolution, as a demagogue arises to lead the people against this senseless tyrany. There is no problem with a Chaotic influence present in asmall sector of teh populace, but it is overused as the archenemy of every last character, planet and system.
Edit: I still support the crusade against a minor Xenos race though.
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Post by inquisitorarantel on Feb 17, 2007 16:28:17 GMT
[dives in mid-topic] I quite favour the seccesionists idea, personally. After all, the greatest threat the Ecclesiarchy is free thinking and new ideas, not alien gribblies (btw, anyone know the where that word came from?). I also think the Ork spores idea is overused. Gribbly may or may not come from WD- the first place I saw it was in an article about tyranids. The word itself is almost certainly derived from "gribble," a type of marine crustacean that eats wood. However, "gribble" has also become a verb- what gribbly things gribble people.
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Post by necris on Feb 19, 2007 12:52:55 GMT
I though we'd come up with the reasoning behind lack of ork spores
I personally think that the purchasing of crusade command is quite possible after all if you have a dozen lord generals from a dozen worlds, who gets to say who is in command?
the man with the most backing of course
And how does a man ensure backing?
By ensuring that i other back him and purchase into his push for control either by supplying his finance for the move to become Warmaster or the man power for the crusade.
Purchasing your rank especially in higher up fields of combat is not done with money but men
Lord Wellington for example could have easily been the subordinant of the Belgian army, or the Prussians but seening as he brought the most men to the battle of waterloo he was the High Commander, not the Prince of Orange
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Post by Doug on Feb 19, 2007 17:08:15 GMT
Well, arguably it was somewhat more complicated than that politically, but real world stuff shouldn't really be bought in too often...
Anyway, as a general thing...we can say that if Martius didn't exactly buy his way in, he..."influenced," his way in, if that makes sense...hmmmm....I'll post up a few of my own ideas in soon...
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Feb 24, 2007 21:29:32 GMT
Well here's pretty much how high command promotions work in the 40K universe.
ability at job - yes politics - definatly influence - yes connections - yes money - no number of men under command - no
a completly incompetant man will never get far. (see Dan Abnetts Honour Guard, the commander of the Guard on the planet ends up shamed and demoted after messing up the planets defense and trying to blame it on more talented officers under his command, ie Gaunt)
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Post by Doug on Feb 24, 2007 23:30:07 GMT
Well....looking at your list....I'd generally agree wth it, except money....money (generally) = influence, therefore the point is a little moot....
And, citing your own sources....the General in Honour Guard....is back, with his rank, in Sabbat Martyr....however, abnett's a dubious resource anyway...but I would argue a generally incompetent man (militarily) could get up there, if he knew and bought off the right people. We may well have to agree to differ on that though, and come up with a middle way for Martius
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Feb 25, 2007 0:57:23 GMT
By money i was refering to actual "purchase" of ranks Things like bribery, other family members making certain trade deals with a certain higher-ranking officers family business, and such-like would all go under the blanket headings of politics and connections.
Ah, yes, I have read up to H.L.C. in the gaunts ghosts and am fully aware the guy comes back. But i just remembered from reading your post that he doesn't actually get demoted, just rather badly shamed and posted as what was effectively the leader of Hagias' PDF... Untill a certain Living Saint comes along and he rides along "to protect her" to ensure he rises in esteem again.
Middle-way sounds good if a decent one can be made.
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Post by Doug on Feb 25, 2007 8:08:04 GMT
Hmmm...well, there are a couple of options....the first is that he starts off as fairly incompetent as a regimental commander, and the change happens sometime then, allowing him to have a meteoric rise through the ranks of High Command
Another might be that he was always incompetent, but managed to survive for a long time on the advice of a cetain individual, who is killed towards the start of the crusade. Martius, however, was a consummate politician, and was able to hold onto his post for a while by virtue of that and his family's influence...and then the change happens....
Or we drop the fact that he was ever incompetent...
There are another couple of ideas I have, but see how they go
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vendile
Enginseer
The doodler
Posts: 234
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Post by vendile on Feb 25, 2007 11:06:39 GMT
i was never a great fan of the incompetance idea, as my initial big post shows.
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Post by necris on Feb 25, 2007 23:41:37 GMT
Well I thought I'd showed that quite effectivly how his incompetance was over shadowed by the ability of his regimental officers, and the fact that he was in command of a successful regiment due in no small part to their ability
But while still being an incompetent officer screwed up his acpect of the crusade by promoting those able bodied men into much higher rank and station and placing their duties well beyond their ability
But the he found a method of command that suited him, ok copying off another man but, and from there his change from an Incompetent to effective millitary leader and beyond was started.
There could be any number of reasons why this change is leadership would have suited him better, or why he'd never done it before.
Perhaps planetary wise, his home world always led from the rear, where as this new war master's always led from the front, a conflict in leadership ethics but the leader rather than the orderer seemed to do better. ergo give it a go and low and behold it works
I've always liked the idea that a Saint should not live his life as a master of everything from the word dot, that they should be an underdog a most unlikely example of what should be a saint, only to come full circle and low and behold represent everything saintly in the universe
Even Saint Sabbat had humble beginnings
Most other modern day saints have poor beginings (if you can find out about the) before becoming the saints we know
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